Monday, May 26, 2008

saying no

Tons of thoughts, much to write - so little time, however here's something I've been thinking about.

Saying No. Am not good at saying "no", in fact, I've never been good at it. I give in quite easily to friends, family and just about whoever asks for help. And even though I say no, eventually I end up helping them, or risk feeling uneasy with an inane sense of guilt or something.

A close childhood friend, from good 'ol UAE, is visiting the apple this summer (again). I really wanna say *NOPE* to his plans. Don't wish to get into the details, however, shall say, he is a master grand slam *player*, great looking, loves women, plenty of home runs, well you get the jist. Last summer, I took him around plenty of parties in the city, introduced him to most women friends, (he caught on to the easy ones) and from all I hear, he had a Fab time, so did most women.

The issue. He is married, has been for less than 2 years. His wife, I think is just about 22 - naive, simple (also, sort of spoiled) semi-conservative girl. Am not sure if she knows of his escapades, I don't think she knows, or maybe she does, well I don't know for sure.

Anyway, he called last weekend, we discussed plans. I can see what he wants to do. He is very open and honest with me, however, if and when I oppose his views, he shall push back, disagree, prove me wrong, and distance himself for while - you know, sort of IRON the guilt with added molten asphalt, tar bitumens an' all. Ever since I've known him, he's been this way, things haven't changed over the years.

Am all for dating, flirting, whatever it takes for an open, full fest premarital search. However, not after you’ve taken the vows. Hence I just don't get why some married folks cheat and swing with multiple partners. I know a few here in the city, men and women.

Not here to judge - however, can't help thinking, don't people get hitched for love and *till death do us apart* given all the sacred vows anymore? or pick a partner, appreciate, compromise, understand, and align one another? If they are unable to do so, at the least, value traditions & sentiments on vows of ancestors, and their legacy.

So there – that's what I want to say *no* to. I realize it's perhaps the correct thing to do. Hopefully I shall keep up the strength & sensibility, over the next few weeks.

Am beat, off to snooze now.

38 comments:

kaya said...

Its funny you wrote this. its a post thats often driven me round the bend. Why men have a problem with monogamy.
But in all fairness, not because I am advocating extra marital affairs, but I want to know why a man has to be that way at all.
What deep rooted sense of insecurity is eating at his soul, that he has to prove his MANHOOD over and over again.
Whats really funny is a lot of these so called "PLAYAS", are usually CRAP in bed, can't get it up most of the times, but MEN never get into the "INNER SANCTUM" of where women sit and compare notes.Because if they heard what we said about them, they would probably never get it up again.

Coming to why a married man would sleep around, as wrong as it is, its better he sleeps around than he has an affiar.
Because that hurts.
Sometimes the wives know and they turn a blind eye, because as a very wise person said to once: Be thankful, he comes home.
At the time it sounded cruel, but looking back at it. It makes a huge difference in our society to have a MAN even if its for the namesake.
When you look at all those single women, single moms, divorced women. At the end of the day every humans goal is to find a partner to share his/her life with.
As far as your discomfort regarding your friend's errant ways, then its a decision you have to make. Know this: HE will not stop, and find another source to provide him with the entertainment.
The only consolation you have for taking the decision to not be party to his antics, is that life has a funny way of biting you in the ass. What goes round , comes round. And when its payback time, he will one day be hit so bad that for his remaining years he will be crippled.
Promiscuity is a disease of the mind.
(sorry for the long rant)

ammaro said...

well, nowadays its become a lot more normal (well, normal and undercover) for both married men and women to sleep around. scary stuff... but i guess in certain situations it keeps people together, if theyre having issues and so on... you cant judge a person sleeping around without knowing the rest of the story; she/he may have issues at home, need someone to let them out to, he/she may have a marriage that isnt working out, but theyre stuck in it for whatever reason. others might just be ones that cant keep it in their pants, you never know. the list goes on.

Jayne said...

Y'know what hurts rosh, is when it comes to the time that you have to sit & look at your friends' wife in the eyes.................will you feel guilty looking at her, knowing full well her husband would shag a snake if it had armpits? Gawd forbid the dozy sod gets a dose of any of the multitude of STD's floating around & then passes it on to his wife......would his 10 minute knee trembler really have been worth the agony that will undoubtably unfold? I doubt it.
It's a shite situation to be in & in my opinion, your 'friend' doesn't think too highly of you, or place any value on a trusted friendship. It would be extremely different if he was single, but he's married for crying out loud!

No is a very little word rosh, but it holds a multitude of emotions. Do yourself a favour & tell your friend 'no' this time.

kaya said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kaya said...

you cant judge a person sleeping around without knowing the rest of the story; she/he may have issues at home
Ammaro
Whatever the situation at home is, decency and even religion prohibits extra marital affairs.
The issue here is not an "affair", but random screwing.
Besides if you are stuck in a bad marriage for whatever reason, most of the time its the woman who cannot leave (financial dependance, children etc).
But one should be honest about it, and either tell the partner and face the consequences (ie separation or acceptance) or leave the partner and pursue ones pleasures.
As far as the whole concept of the so called "OPEN MARRIAGE" goes, then that is a western invention.

Once you are married and have children, you need to grow up and sort out your horomones.
If for some medical reason, your partner is unable to provide a physical relationship, then those are extra ordinary cases.
But Adultery is no longer extra ordinary anymore. There is just no justification for adultery.

the real nick said...

rosh,

Don't judge your friend, but judge your friendship with him.
If you disapprove of one's actions, such as adultery, put it all on the scales and make a call to which side they tilt.

On the other hand, you could take him for the ride of his life, and take him to some clubs full of leatherclad mustachoid 'bareback bears'!
(don't ask me how I know of these things.)

vimal said...

Marriage is a financial arrangement if partners are partying around.Nothing more.If u can accept that ur friend's marriage has a different definition,perhaps u can accept him in totality.But if u feel there are some universality in values that people hold,then bugger,u'll have to tell ur friend off.

BuJ said...

Rosh, interesting post.. in a way i see a bit of my past in your post.. if you want, give me his number and i'll say no to him on your behalf.. i've got a friend similar to yours.. and he tries to drag me into all sorts of shit.. and he's a damn good friend i know him for more than a decade.. but i told him friendship is one thing, and me being involved in your womanising activities is another.

respect yourself.

BuJ said...

PS: Damn! I miss this blog!! Man... what can I say.. WORK!

i*maginate said...

kaya, you say it like it is. And for mrs. jayne, not all of us are from SA and have the guts to say NO ;-) nevtheless we admire your courage...if that sounds weird to you, it was a compliment...I don't have half the b*alls you both do!

Luv ya both...

Rosh, good luck in the way you handle things...

moryarti said...

This is exactly why i love the show 'My Name is Earl'..

I have several "friends" here and abroad who think it is OK and sometimes "healthy" to have a "few on the side".

The only bad news I hear, come from those exact people. The PLAYAS. One can never hold on to a job. Another got caught by his company's auditors for skimming a bit off the top. Another person's children are ALWAYS sick. One I know can never get himself out of financial debt... and all of them never seem to have any peace of mind.

Many of them always attempt to get me into their game. It's their security measure to justify what they are doing "if everyone else is doing it, then it must be OK," they think.

I don't mean to sound like a tight-ass self-righteous SOB, but to me, its straight and simple: adultery is wrong.

rosh said...

Kaya-g: I hear what you say, do not disagree with most of it - and to be honest, when I wrote this post, I wasn't thinking of such magnitude -mostly about why recently married/slightly younger folks cheat within a few years.

I don't know if the majority of women take back such husbands, I mean I really don't know. It's wrong to cheat, but to cheat more than once, and knowing your wife may suspect something - that's slimy! It's not just your wife that's being disrespected, but the kids as well.

Am not sure, I can prevent my friend from doing what he wants to. Thanks for that long rant, pleasure reading :)

rosh said...

Ammaro: am not sure, if it's the way you write (which always seem very convincing! :) - or that your words are exactly what my friend tells me often, and the subsequent thoughts in my head.

He is what I call a *silent* player. When he is with his wife, nobody shall have the slightest clue, he cheats or is a player. He is this completely different old fashioned dude. At times, I am all confused and have confronted him, in a subtle way. I don't think he is happy to begin with. I think he's staying in it, because society and his family expect him to. I think he knows the future isn't solid.

rosh said...

".....you feel guilty looking at her,..."

Jayne, I know. I can never be around his wife - am afraid I may confess with the guilt and all. OMG, yeah not pleasant sharing a chat with his wife...man?

I don't what he honestly thinks of me? When am back home, whenever he can, he picks me from the airport (nobody in my family does that :) - fills me me in all the gossip around the neighbourhood, with friends and at work . Often, he brings everyone together for long rides, shisha, shwarmah times - talk about ol times. Am not sure what to think....I've known him since I was 6.

rosh said...

Hi nick: thanks for that :)

Vimal, wish it was that easy.....thanks for your thoughts.

BuJ: I've no doubt, with your skill on PR, you shall do well to convince such folk. This might sound silly, but I do feel a sense of guilt to shut a door on someone I've known since infancy, who's been open and honest about his ways of life, issues and all. At the same time, I do not like or am comfortable with what he is doing. If he wasn't married, I wouldn't care.

Anyway he is coming into town in a few days. The only excuse I can come up with is that I am travelling on project work -
'casue there is nothing else I can do to prevent his escapades. So yeah, he can have my place - I'll just burn the sheets and get a new couch when am back heh...

...thanks for your kind words.

rosh said...

i* - am sure you know psyche of men, more than I and you also know many women folk. Do you think women know of cheating men? Is it some sort of norm these days to accept and forgive? I thought quite a bit, before writing this post - in fact, deleted the first.

Thanks for the luck - I think, am being a chicken, using escapism for now.....

Hi Mory: adultery may be wrong, though can't help thinking, if rights/wrongs can be black & white in life these days....? Am not defending adultery, am not sure if all people get into this shit with an intention to cause harm or grief. However, you are right, it can never be a solution toward anything positive.

Thanks for all your comments peps, really helped (HUGE HELP) to get it off the chest and hear views from everyone, so thank you :)

Dubai Guy said...

Rosh, if I was in your place, I would say NO even if it means not seeing that "friend" ever again. A friend is someone who is with you in all good things.

I have no idea about Christianity, but according to Islamic teachings, a person who shows the way towards good also gets similar reward as the person doing good. And same is true for bad stuff.

I would say that if you can't stop him, then at least stop helping him indirectly in his "expeditions" :-)

Anonymous said...

There's a lot to be said for staying connected to someone you've known for so many years. And maybe his moral code (if you can call it that!) is totally different from yours and most decent people. Maybe his wife is uncomfortable with sex, who knows? In other words, maybe he has reasons for seeking out other women - i.e., maybe he's unsatisfied at home.
On the other hand, sometimes a true jerk, who a nice wife, nice family, still uses other women for a quick thrill. That is sad but it's his business.
The hard part for you, Rosh, is acting as if your friend is an upstanding guy when you're around his wife. Kind of makes you a liar and you're a good guy!
I'd say stay friends with him because of your history and bec he seems to have redeeming qualities. Where I'd ABSOLUTELY draw the line is not allowing him to have extra-marital sex in your apartment. He should do that elsewhere at the very least. That is just plain sleazy.
Difficult issue but as you can see lots of people found it interesting.

BuJ said...

sorry rosh.. like it has been said before, i'd draw a big fat line when it comes to adultury in MY OWN HOME

i don't care if you know him since before you're born or even if he were your twin.. sometimes you gotta be firm to be fair.

he needs to be told off. and if he still wants to sleep around, let him find a hotel and keep you out of it. but i'm sure he can figure that out for himself.

rosh said...

Hi DG, thanks for that. Not justifying anything here - am not religious, but spiritual, for sure. Am not sure why, but these days, there seems to be two sides to a right and a wrong - i.e. even when something is wrong, there is correct side to it, or so I see it that way? I shall definitely have a face to face honest chat with him, thanks to all you guys, am able to sort of confront, and discuss why he does what he does.

rosh said...

Hi Anon: thanks, I hear ya, all valid stuff. Yes, it's sort of a sticky pickle situation. I mean we've shared almost everything growing up. I just knew he was not happy going into that wedding - he spent most of his savings on that.

To clarify, my comment (to BuJ) on sheet burning, was given the fact, am a cleanliness freak. He won't be having any of those at my place. But I shall dispose of bed ware, just given the freak I am. Yea, he is staying at my place and decent enough to know he shall/cannot bring over someone. Plus I've got some close, friendly a bit nosey neighbours (from Arab world & Desi folks) who know he is married - so yeah, nothing at my apartment :)

Hala Mr BuJ: I should have been clearer. NOPE, nothing of such sort. Wouldn't have that at all.Moreover, he wouldn't even consider such that. I know him that much.

Lilliy said...

This is a very hard post to comment on... I understand there is strict right and wrong... but in real life there is a lot and I learned that its A LOT OF SHADES OF GRAY... it cant be black or white.. And human nature is so complex... I try always to shy away from being too judgmental in how I handle people... I do inside of me really resent Adultery most of the time I don’t say out loud but I do inside of me even if I try not to be judgmental when it comes to this I do look down at people who are married and play around or who are in serious relationships and are unfaithful.. because I always feel that its that poor wife ( and this is a biased view off course because I am a woman and I except monogamy in a relationship so I wouldn’t say even that its ok to cheat) who is staying at home fully trusting him and he is running around picking up others.. I always say this ... there is no reason for anyone to cheat... you is not happy in a relationship walk out then do what ever you want... I know it’s more complicated than that... at least give the option to the partner... if they accept and stay... I think you have done your part if you had reasons to stay... or have reasons that you have to stay... as for friends... that is a very sticky situation at the same time I understand your position Rosh its like me I resent and actually feel kind of disgust when you see it happening in front of your eyes from a friend and then at the same time other than that your found of your friend and try to understand or at least be non judgmental.. But what happens is you have this struggle in you because you really really don’t like what they are doing... because I know they wouldn’t like it if it was them being cheated on... lets face it people who do these kind of things are selfish they want it all they want to cheat but not be cheated on .. I also resent inside me the women that accept this kind on the resiving part... I mean by that the women that know he is married and don’t care and still sleep with him... I mean in side what ever I think about it... I can’t look at them with an approving eye or even a respectful eye how ever hard I try to understand... I can’t tell you Rosh to say no... because if I cared for a friend I wouldn’t have been able to stop them from doing what they want but I wouldn’t be respectful of them even if I don’t tell them out of respect to the friendship we have.. To me unfaithfulness I cant swallows it ever... I just cant and I know in these times its every where but it still turns my stomach how ever I try to think of it... we ALL have something in our life that isn’t fully right... And I cant say I myself is a saint... no way... and I think of people who think they are deluded... saints are not human nature... but when it comes to this I CANT LOOK AT THE PERSON THE SAME WAY EVER.. I accept them in my life for all the other things they are that is good and they can have plenty that tips the scale in the good part... but that fault puts them on a lower scale still..
Rosh... Ill suggest to you what I would do... do what feels right at the time... It might not be the right thing to do sometimes but friendships is sometimes about accepting the friend’s even bad side...
soo sorry for this long replay..

Sarah said...

Don't mean to belabor this issue but I know what you should do, Rosh.
If you have your friend visit you, I would wait until a quiet moment when you two are comfortable with each other and just ask him, "why do you do this?"
Don't tell him what to do or what not to do, but tell him you really want to know. Add that since he's married - and newly married at that - there must be a reason he is frequently fooling around behind his wife's back.
He may or may not give you a decent answer, but if you don't say too much he may begin to think about it. It will, at least, make him ask himself this question.
I would also tell him that it puts you in a very awkward position,that it makes you a liar when you see his wife.
I think in this life we need to listen more and talk less with our friends. Maybe nobody ever asked him why he behaves so badly.
What do you think?

i*maginate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
i*maginate said...

"If they are unable to do so, at the least, value traditions & sentiments on vows of ancestors, and their legacy." - Great quote.

Dear rosh, sorry for the late response:

No, I don't believe I'm gifted in the knowledge of the psyche of men, though I know I can recognise a good man, when he comes. If I can explain it this way: by female instinct and by his actions, I could recognise a good man. Still, there are ppl of both sexes who are skilled in the art of deception (as we see in films) so it might not be possible to tell whether they are cheating or not.

As for cheating, it really depends on the biology of the guy and his upbringing. I strongly believe men are biologically prone to 'cheating' (tempted by multiple partners) but if spritituality is a dominating force, loyalty will prevail (in marriage).

Do with your friend how you feel. I think if they value your standards they would respect them and not try and 'convince' you otherwise...when I read how he's trying to win you over by debating, I sense pangs of guilt on his behalf...perhaps a little envy that you are so firm in your beliefs.

Inspire Your Mind said...

Ages ago.. polygamy was the norm.. it was human nature and it still is.. culture and religion both draw limits to our desires..

Values or no values.. at the end if marriage was based on genuine love; the couple shouldn't go deviant.. at least this is what I think.. I might be wrong though..

Inspire Your Mind said...

Mind you.. maybe his wife needs sex education to please her husband so he stops fooling around !

A Blessing in Tragedy said...

Oh? Sex education? so its her fault that this guy's a tool. If you still have the sleep around mentality you shouldnt have gotten married. clearly he's still 16 in the head, so why undertake a sacred and huge responsibility?

Man you are one of the FEW bloggers that I think has a sort of brain, Please tell me you're going to show him the door.

Tell him your sis is staying with you that same period and you dont have the room.

I used to have "friends" like this when I was at University in the US. drop everything, tell their families they were going on BUSINESS and wanting to shake up at my place while doing god knows what.

My way out was My sister is visiting! (mind you, my sister was also at Uni, but in a different state) but it always worked. and no awkwardness was ever created.

Dont help tools out.

Inspire Your Mind said...

Please don't underestimate the value of sex education.. I tried it with my friend; it worked for a while but then her husband continued cheating on her simply because he's an asshole..

Clearly sex education works if it's the 'only' reason behind bondage 'disequilibrium'.. but relationships are very complex.. we tend to blame men all the time; how do you know she's not the one to blame ? How do you know she's not fooling around as he's doing ? I'm not refering to anyone in particular.. all I'm saying is look at both sides of the coin.. listen to both parties and then make judgments.. that's all.

the real nick said...

Rosh, I agree with the sex education argument & I herewith volunteer to educate your friend's wife.

Inspire Your Mind said...

LOL nick.. doctors or certified sexologists should do it only ;)

rosh said...

Hey guys, apologies for the absence. Overwhelmed with a few things.

Lilly, Sarah, i*, IYM (wow lots of ladies at my blog :) Shukrans for your thoughts. I am torn, 'cause they all make sense. Clearly, there are two sides/shades, to a right or a wrong. Human beings are complex (yet can seem incredibly foolish/selfish/confused) creatures.

I had a chat - an intense chat with my friend. Am upset and sort of relieved the way it turned out, there's more to the story. I shall not get into details however strongly feel society must never force marriage on young folks, it can cause plenty of angst and ruin innocent futures.

rosh said...

Salam ABIT: welcome to my blog. Long time no speak. Hope you are keeping well and towards the end of a complete recovery. Thoughts for healthier tomorrow.

That said, thanks for the kind words :) My friend is staying at my place. I shan't boot him, after a 13 hour flight and in the midst of NYC tourist season. However, he has the decency, esteem and respect - to respect hospitality.

I hear ya, however, end of the day, he is a grown up and can/shall do whatever he pleases. I've had an intense talk with him past Sunday, he knows - he really knows what he's doing - he's got *his* reasons. I don't have an opinion either way.

Nick: LMAO! am sure you'd love that :) BTW you do have to get a signed waiver from your wife, sort of consenting she's got no concerns, haha! :)

kaya said...

Saaaaar
koi nayyi baat ho jaye?
(Sir
Can we pls have more?)

al-republican said...

Rosh:

Don't get entangled in this idiotic talk of "shades of gray" argument. There is no ambiguity here - adultery is one of the worst injustices a human can to do another.

What do people mean by "oh maybe they are not having a good relationship..."? That is complete hogwash! If 2 persons are not getting along then they should just call it a day and find themselves another partner. Your friend is addicted to sex and has no control over his desires.

Why do you ask the psyche of men, Rosh? We men are attracted by women; it is our natural make and if we want to start to tame the animal within us we HAVE to admit that. The difference between a committed husband versus an adulterer is that the latter does not have control over his desires. He wants to take his fascination of women to another level and will not stop at anything but "home base".

Unfortunately, I have such friends too and it pisses me to see them banging other women when they have children who love their father. You asked if their wives know or dont. Well, I assure you, sooner or later they FIND OUT. One thing I really admire women for is their "sixth sense". Especially when it comes to their men, their radar REALLY works well.

Sad part is that some women resign to these ways of their husbands for the sake of children and societal pressures. But, they lose respect for their husbands and soon enough children stop respecting their fathers too. They turn out real losers in the long run.

Sorry for going on, but I have to mention one more thing before I sign off on this one: These swingers pick up this habit before marriage! Too much hanging around with girls and this whole college life of girlfriends and boyfriends is just really screwing up people in the head. Sex has become cheap these days.

rosh said...

Hey Al, long time no hear :) Thanks for that, I hear all what you say and neither do I disagree, however, not all amongst us are the same - and situations aren't quite black & white in real life.

A cheating husband or wife or a wife who turns a willing blind eye - do what they have to at times, with some sort of hope that they shall find peace or solitude which eludes them for no fault of their own. All said, I know this much - not all those who cheat, do so willingly, out of absolute free will.

As lame as all the above may sound to you, as imperfect beings, I relate to it. Though I thoroughly condone people who cheat for the heck of it.

aoc gold said...

At The Seaside

(1)

When I was down beside the sea

A wooden spade they gave to me

To dig the sandy shore.

(2)

The holes were empty like a cup

In every hole the sea camp up,

Till it could come no more.

-----by age of conan

Ezine Articles said...

It's a shite situation to be in & in my opinion, your 'friend' doesn't think too highly of you, or place any value on a trusted friendship. It would be extremely different if he was single, but he's married for crying out loud!

Basit Javed