Friday, October 05, 2007

match makers

OK, so everyone knows New York City is the place for singles - single men & women move into the city from all over to meet prospective partners, hopefully for life. Whilst we all have specific thoughts on the better halves, there are also a fair share of wild ducks amongst the sane ones.

Below is an advert (and the response) from a single woman, on craigslist. There is much debate going on at the moment, between friends & I. I think the advert is honest to the point, it's a bit obnoxious, whilst the response is sorta funny & fitting ......well, I think :)

Advert Reads:

"What am I doing wrong?

Okay, I'm tired of beating around the bush. I'm a beautiful(spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I'm articulate and classy. I'm not from New York. I'm looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don't think I'm overreaching at all.

Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around $200K - $250K. But that's where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won't get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she's not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?

Here are my questions specifically:

-Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars,restaurants, gyms
-What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won't hurt my
feelings
-Is there an age range I should be targeting (I'm 25)?
-Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I've seen really 'plain jane' boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I've seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What's the story there?
-Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows - lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?

-How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY

Please hold your insults - I'm putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I'm being up front about it. I wouldn't be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn't able to match them - in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth."


Response from a guy

"Dear xxxx

I read your posting with great interest and have thought meaningfully about your dilemma. I offer the following analysis of your predicament. Firstly, I'm not wasting your time, I qualify as a guy who fits your bill; that is I make more than $500K per year. That said here's how I see it.

Your offer, from the prospective of a guy like me, is plain and simple a crappy business deal. Here's why. Cutting through all the B.S., what you suggest is a simple trade: you bring your looks to the party and I bring my money. Fine, simple. But here's the rub, your looks will fade and my money will likely continue into perpetuity...in fact, it is very likely that my income increases but it is an absolute certainty that you won't be getting any more beautiful!

So, in economic terms you are a depreciating asset and I am an earning asset. Not only are you a depreciating asset, your depreciation accelerates! Let me explain, you're 25 now and will likely stay pretty hot for the next 5 years, but less so each year. Then the fade begins in earnest. By 35 stick a fork in you!

So in Wall Street terms, we would call you a trading position, not a buy and hold...hence the rub...marriage. It doesn't make good business sense to "buy you" (which is what you're asking) so I'd rather lease. In case you think I'm being cruel, I would say the following. If my money were to go away, so would you, so when your beauty fades I need an out. It's as simple as that. So a deal that makes sense is dating, not marriage.

Separately, I was taught early in my career about efficient markets. So,I wonder why a girl as "articulate, classy and spectacularly beautiful" as you has been unable to find your sugar daddy. I find it hard to believe that if you are as gorgeous as you say you are that the $500K hasn't found you, if not only for a tryout.

By the way, you could always find a way to make your own money and then we wouldn't need to have this difficult conversation.

With all that said, I must say you're going about it the right way. I hope this is helpful, and if you want to enter into some sort of lease,let me know."

55 comments:

BuJ said...

this is such a Rosh post, and i love it!!!

if i read this in a newspaper, then i'd scan it and send to you, that's how much i identify with this post as being yours :)

this is brilliant.. and that women is exactly the kind of woman i'd enjoy tearing apart (in a most classy manner).. i mean.. it's so rude and unelegant to talk about money and set limits.. not in marriage..

at least say you wanna meet guys and ur open to marriage.. but to wanna enter in marriage full stop is kinda niave

brilliant post sensei

rosh said...

hahahaha BuJ - OK I am not saying *if* I am *the guy* who responded to her post :)

However, the funniest/concerning part about the posting is that what she says is frighteningly enough the way sooo many girls in NYC actually think!!!! No kidding -it's quite materialistic. If and when you decide to visit NYC, I shall introduce you to woman folk in this town and see for yourself :)

localexpat said...

hahahaha I loved the response ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!

BuJ said...

oh boy.. Rosh.. i know the net can be mis-leading.. but i am fairly sure this is not you replying to this gal. very sure.

oh, i would love to come to NYC.. but shame it's in the USA :P

i*maginate said...

Entertaining post, rosh!

I don't know how this will sound but I will try and communicate it in an "elegant" way ;)

I do sympathise with this lady - those who read people & cake will know ;) From a woman's perspective all I interpret from her ad is that she just doesn't know how to go about finding the right guy for her, and is therefore lonely and desperate.

Money can be an important factor in choosing the right mate, to some - for obvious reasons, but it should certainly not be the deciding factor if one is true to onself. As the guy responds, if his money were to go, what would then remain of the relationship?

I am sure this lady is looking for more than just money, but it appears that she is way out of the league of guys she has met and doesn't know how to meet suitable candidates. I guess her expectations are too high, and maybe she's a perfectionist...

I found the guy's response most enlightening, actually! Sometimes I guess guys don't want to marry a "spectacularly beautiful" woman because they fear she might run off with the next man. But who's to say "plane Jane" wouldn't run off with the next guy anyway: it's not to say that she didn't necessarily have a "strategy" when marrying "rich richard"!

These are all presumptions, though. When two people fall in love, nothing stops them, warts and all! :)

BuJ said...

I*maginate.. oh my.. Warts... loads of questions on my mind that better be left un-questioned!

Haven't seen u around in ages. Everytime I try to goto ur blog my browser crashes.. any idea why?

rosh said...

Ahlan i*... - long time no debate :)

To be married you have to be in love with someone, true love, does not start (or end) with how many green bucks you've got in the bank.

Women like the girl in the advert are aplenty in NYC. NYC is a diamond pit for sugar daddies and spectacularly beautiful gold diggers. The truth is - most guys know about such women. She can Prada-ize, Chanel-ize or Paul Smith-ize herself head to toe and look beyond "spectacularly beautiful". However she ain't that attractive if she's missing those two vital accessories - an understanding mind & a caring heart, which every faithful guy shall pay attention to, before saying "till death do us apart" and signing on that pre-nup.

"Sometimes I guess guys don't want to marry a "spectacularly beautiful" woman because they fear she might run off with the next man."

One of my favorite movies is Scarface . The movie has some great lines, but the most relevant in this case is, - "In this country (i.e. USA) you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women."

The fact is that for marriage, your average *spectacularly beautiful* American woman that joined a sorority, drank plenty of alcohol through her college years, has a tattoo on her lower back and a pierce tongue or belly button is not going to be a good wife candidate. They are great friends, to go out, date (which nowadays means anything from living with somebody to just going out on and off), bed buddies etc etc -but not a wife.

All I'm saying is this, if you don't have money, you won't get the supermodel, the snob, or the sophisticated chick (well for the most part). You'll get a woman, who shall care for your home, your kids and you like none of the above - and for most guys, after the *party* is over, such a woman is whom they'd like to make a home with.

localexpat said...

"One of my favorite movies is Scarface"

Great minds think alike rosh :-)

al-republican said...

Hahaha! Excellent response to the gold digger!

I see a LOT of good looking girls here in Dubai, too, Rosh. In fact, I was just talking to a friend the other day when we were at the Jumeirah Beach and I told him how Dubai has become a magnet for good looking women! Admittedly, most of them are stacked with makeup and designer stuff.

You know, there was a time when I wanted to get married to spend my life with a good looking woman. That was when I was in my late teens. Then in my mid 20's I learned to see beyond good looks and I wanted a woman whom I could relate to and share the same interests and thoughts when I am 50 something. Now that I am nearing 30, I want to get married to be a father!

I really do think the happiest day of my life would be when I can hold my own child in my arms :)

i*maginate said...

If that is an ad, my dear al republican, I will take you - but a warning, I want 8 kids. :P

rosh, love & marriage could be debated for yonks! Still, although I understand what you say about the trend in these "NY" ladies they must be a certain breed...all cultures have them.

One of my "friends" on facebook who is currently spending her vacation in Dubai has on her "interests" list "spending my husband's money"! I am not kidding, and she is not either! I am looking forward to catching up with her: undoubtedly the rock on her finger will be the biggest of the men who have so far proposed to her, whom she has ended up with.

On another point, I think social standing has a lot to do with which mate you choose. I just have a feeling this is what the lady was trying to convey but if you think not, I'll agree with you since you have a better understanding of the NY dating scene ;)

Just wanted to point out I posted something on the same topic on the people & cake blog with a link to this post - the post is hilarious!

rosh said...

lol i*....Al's so lucky grrr!! :)

True indeed - all cultures have them - true again social standings play a part.

The aspect which irked me off a bit, was how she started (and ended)her quest for a man with monies. There's no talk about what kind of guy she is looking for or anything about her traits, besides that fact she is *spectacularly beautiful* and looking to get married to money bags.

To me she came across as someone thrusting her looks as a means to get hold of some cash and needless to say, quite negative - but then again, that's just me perhaps, growing a wee bit pessimistic and grey, given the NYC lifestyle :)

I am going to hop over to cake & people.

i*maginate said...

Yeah, point taken :)

cake & people? looking more like that than "people and cake" these days.

where's inspire?

Buj it's party time again...throw out the apron and get cooking! :)

rosh said...

oops my bad, people and cake it is :)

There is much discussion amongst friends and I on this topic. Some totally agree with this girl, their point is, let's not beat around the bush - lets be honest about our priority list, and then see where things go?

Then there is me - who seem pretty much numb to such logic, but then, am trying to open my mind and sincerely see *logic* and *heart* in such comments.

Inspire's MIA - neck deep in studies, some big medical test coming up.

BuJ - u cookin am helpin, who's dancin? Al can? great someone slip in that bollywood balle balle disc pleaze :) lol

i*maginate said...

nope tis ok, cake & people is the order I shoulda named it...good idea! ;)

As for the intentions of the lady who posted, to me it sounds sincere but a lil bit desperate - agree with your points, though.

Inspire "will be back" I'm sure.

Question is, what's BuJ cooking?

And where the partaaay!!

Al has gotta explain this "Chak de" thing coz I am still trying to get my head around it - can still not get youtube to work properly and dying to hear the tune!

Does it involve a huge dance with lots of flapping of the arms? Sounds cool to me!

BuJ said...

oh, i'm cooking apparently?

what do u guys wanna eat?

I hear Rosh's penthouse has a brilliant view :)

rosh said...

Hmmmmmmm ..... now you've got me thinking - what if she was being noble and so naively honest about it all? After all she did say she's not from the city?

Having said that, I do wish to clarify, not all women looking for financial stability is a gold digger - they need to reassure themselves Mr right is also financially dependable - so yup, I can relate to her if she's being honest about it.

Yes Al, where is this chak de song? who sings it - am gonna look it up on you tube. Lord have mercy on me, since am anti-bollywood and all. It's all Al's fault :)

rosh said...

BuJ - sah, you are cookin, because you've got the killer cookin skills. Ages ago, I read a post and saw pictures on your blog - you were placing some Zaatar or was it Saj filled with labneh/meat drenched in olive oil in your kitchen oven? (am drooling already :) Man how do you cook those - I can't even make decent coffee or toast.

Yes, my 3rd floor *penthouse* has a great view hahahaha :) Sorry folks, am scared of heights - but I've got a nice balcony and a neat view - with music playing, lighted candles and all people, just come on over :)

al-republican said...

I am the dancer?? You guys will puke out all the good food buj feeds you if I were to dance! I couldn't dance to save my life - I really do suck at it!

Yeah, where is IYM? I got a brilliant SMS today from one of my friends that IYM would love:

Filipino song-

u are berry beautipool;
u are unbelibabool;
i tink ob u all da day;
i will lob u anyway;
when u penees ur money;
i will gib u some honey!

Hehe, pretty relevant to the topic at hand :P I was laughing while driving and I was giving someone a ride back home who doesn't know me too well. He must be thinking I am a nut!

rosh said...

lol that's hilarious Al!

OK then - I shall dance, I dance awesome - or so tells me the laaadiezz *grinning ear to ear* :)

But no Bollymusic pleaze - that just flies over my head.

BuJ said...

lol ya AL- at your poem.. brilliant!!!! how come i never get such txt messages? hehe

Ahmed Shubbar said...

Haha…$500,000 a year is trump change in UAE. Maybe she should try her luck in the Emirates.

Spectacularly beautiful, uh-huh sure.

i*maginate said...

ahmed, maybe look at it this way - the men are paying the women to marry them coz they are SO ugly! :P

ok ok I know it's so un PC but we ain't got no concept of PC here in dxb - but really, we need more plastic surgeons here, and some authentic viagra perhaps.

SevenSummits said...

Smashing post, Rosh :-) - so funny! ROFL
Mmmm, when I hear NY, I think of lots of models and the corresponding superficial, short-lived atmosphere that this business comes along with. DC is not like this at all and I have honestly not noticed the same type of women there – well, at least I haven’t? Personally, I do not believe that this is very common in most Western European societies and I tend to agree with you that this is absolutely appalling. His best advice was for to find a job and take care of herself!

Quite an interesting topic to be honest! Recently scientists have confirmed that when it comes to a stable permanent relationship (some believe this is still found in the institution of marriage, while others find this notion totally obsolete) “men” actually prefer non-spectacular women (in other words non sexy, dull and boring). Not joking! There was a lot more to this study and to go into details would be hazardous, but while they obviously like the stunning beauty for a girlfriend, they would rather have something less attractive at home. Reasons were among others “Scared of competition and securing of genetic code”. Same study actually proofed that evolution never expected people to be monogamous - it was quiet interesting!

Hypothetical:
She obviously has a depreciating market value (plus lacks the ability to run a better PR campaign), but would she be better of sitting at home being a good girl until she is maybe 45 and then after two decades asking the same question: “What did I do wrong?”

Or actually – how about the other way round: Men frequently dump women for a younger edition (unfortunately, but it is true in every society) or even worse “keep one at home for breeding purposes” while enjoying themselves with a girlfriend (now where have I seen that quite frequently?) Suddenly, we start condemning women, when they start “thinking practical”? Just a thought – not an opinion!

Finally, from my personal long life observation :-) – it is always the sweet, faithful, caring, modest, conservative girls/women that are the losers in today’s world. They seem to have no market value whatsoever - we honestly live in a strange world! Actually there was even a book about this problem by a German author, but translated into English: “Good Girls Go to Heaven, Bad Girls Go Everywhere”

rosh said...

lol Ahmed : ) apparently such spectacular women are trying their luck in the UAE - quite sad, indeed.

i*...what's PC stand for?

7S - Ahlan to you. long time no speak. Glad you enjoyed reading it, nevertheless so you know I didn't write the response :)

Concur with most of what you say, though I'd like to add, there are a lot of good guys who get the short end of the stick from spectacularly beautiful women or the plain Janes (in far less instances).

I have always believed - meeting one's mate for life, has more to do with meeting of minds than anything external. Yes, ofcourse, the external is important, but more important is mental connectivity/comparability. Sadly, atleast in New York City - I see more and more relationships starting off and surviving given physical attraction and/or monies in the bank, than anything else. However, it doesn't stop there - for instance, at this moment, I can think of 6 girlfriends whom I know quite well. 5 are in relationships with respective boyfriends - however, all 5 are promiscuous, to the point, men have become something disposable (likewise for the men who have such relationships with these women).

The one who has had a steady boyfriend (for the past 4 years) is contemplating an engagement/marriage. She's German and quite pretty - he's an average Joe American. Anyways, don't want to get too in-depth with details.

After almost 7 years in the city, am still trying to understand, what women want, from a guy?

i*maginate said...

sevensummits

You said

“men” actually prefer non-spectacular women (in other words non sexy, dull and boring).

Then you say:

"it is always the sweet, faithful, caring, modest, conservative girls/women that are the losers in today’s world."

Your observation above seems to contradict the "scientific" conclusion.

Could you please clarify?


*rosh, PC y3ni = Political Correctness. :)

al-republican said...

Sevensummits:

I agree with everything you say! You should be a Muslim 7S! It's not that difficult; you just have to say the shahadah and chill out with us :)

Seriously, I love some of you like rosh and 7S. I think you guys are very close to the natural state that God has created us all in. Somehow you guys have been able to repel the brainwashing of the West.

7S, I know what you are talking about those who keep a wife at home for breeding purposes and have a million other broads outside to have a good time. For our last iftar, my friends and I went to a restaurant and one of them got his girlfriend along. I was quite mad at him, but I couldnt be impolite. This same friend of mine had the audacity to retort with a silly "proverb" to my advice to him to not to cheat on his wife. He said, "Wife is for fucking and girlfriends are for sucking".

Excuse the brazen statement, but you can see the mentality here. Apparantly his wife is supposed to be some holy cow whom he can't and shouldn't share all kinds of sexual pleasures with!(????) The things he considers fun, but "unholy" is left for his girlfriends. He is a good looking guy so women are really attracted to the guy as well.

What a bloody shame and this guy calls himself a Muslim. We do live in a crazy world!

rosh said...

Al - it's a shame about your friend. I have a few of those as well. However, don't think it's got to do all (or much) with religion - perhaps more, with human conscience, ways of upbringing, value & respect for another being as well as for self. In short, the moral values in our lives. I believe an atheist can uphold moral values. Where is Inspire? she'd have a hell lot to say on this topic.

OK, having said that - what's cooking in the UAE this Eid people? Is the nation all lit up? Fireworks, flags? Princess, what sortsa 3eediya at your palace? Mail me some yo :)

My brothers & friends have gone on this road trip to Salalah, Oman - am sooooooooo jealous! Well at least it's Fall here in the city....blah

i*maginate said...

al republican, I can understand.

I don't know how this will sound, but I expect men to cheat. It's something to do with biology I guess, and something I expect, as a part of life, though it's against my morals. I would personally never have the "urge" to cheat.

What is a girl to do? Drown in morals or accept life as it is?

*rosh, I have a pot of harees. I've eaten everything else, I'm afraid! lol The harees is the only thing outstanding coz it's lacking in sugar and excessive carbohydrates, unlike the rest of the stuff I've happily polished off!

lol you must be missing the UA of E ;) When you coming back?

rosh said...

Yeah, it's true - men cheat, it's *almost* inherent. A portion of my married or *taken* male friends flirt or cheat..... however, there are a large majority who stay committed, or so, I believe.

However, never lose heart or belief. Sometime relationships die 'cause a woman suspects way too much....

I'll take that Hafeez - thank you very much lol! I am back this Christmas for a whole month - can't wait. It's the flight back that's dreadful - more so 'cause I'll be going back to chilly winter.

SevenSummits said...

Thanks Al :-) LOL, but you know last time I tried to explain my perfect relationship with God and that I will not allow that relationship to be institutionalized by any made-made and human interpreted religion, I had a Saudi in front of me that got really upset and somewhere along the way I must have unintentionally hurt his feelings. So I will chill and let you know that I feel very comfortable in a Mosque as well as in a church or any other house of God.

But even I am fully aware that Islam is very progressive when it comes to sex and that somewhere it was advised that a couple should have mutual fun in bed, so that nobody will be tempted to search for something outside. Try to see it from a humorous point of view, in the US your friend might have to change States to get a legal BJ – so much for modern backwardness.

On the other hands maybe some of those girlfriends are really in love with him and there is always the option of polygamy – which I am actually a strong supporter of, because in my opinion it allows women to have a safer relationship. (especially in developing countries) In short - better for her to be a second/third/fourth wife, than just a disposable girlfriend without any legal protection!

I hate to break it to you guys/girls, but it has also been proofed that men and women are almost equally unfaithful – maybe human nature, who knows, but I certainly do not agree with that and would never, ever cheat on any given partner. If I would have such an urge, I would take a very close look at that particular relationship and maybe it will be better to be honest and split up.

Rosh, I fully agree with everything you said, but trust me I am also still trying to figure out, what are the ingredients for a great relationship. Obviously that is beyond logic! You didn’t ask that question, did you: What do women want from men????? Help! BUJ and Inspire are the two sensitive folks here – maybe they know?

In general certainly internal values – especially honesty and the ability to communicate!!! But good sex for both is also very, very important! So in the case of Al’s friend we also should blame his wife, because she could simply make an effort and educate herself to give him what he needs and keep him at home. After having a great time with his wife, why should he be roaming around? He will be too tired to do so, so it really also depends on her. Why is everyone always blaming the male part of such disasters? So my advice for i* will also be, use your “sexual intelligence” and he will stay controlled :-) – men are more simple that most people think, so no need to except “unfaithfulness”. So - with the correct woman - men will not neccesarrily cheat!


________________

Sorry I* you are absolutely correct :- ) I missed a word there for it to make sense. “cute”

There is quite a difference between the “spectacular” beauty (as by her own description?! whatever that may look like) and this special “female species” that I was talking about.
We all know this certain “type”: She is anything from dull and boring!
In high school it was the shy girl that all the guys were chasing after, but she didn’t except to have dates because of her moral worldview. (And all the other women hated her for that and gave her a really hard time) In college she concentrated on her studies instead of worrying about fashion or make-up. She went out of course, but stayed away from alcohol, drugs and guys. Maybe daddy made sure to take her and collect her again – hence she comes from a protected home. She was committed to voluntary work – maybe in an old peoples home, YMCA, Peace Corps or a Shelter for the homeless or simply took care of a family member.
She has a nice body, but does not wear revealing clothes; she has a pretty face, but does not wear make up, she does not wear or own a lot of jewelry, because she never found it appropriate to except gifts from men. Because she comes from a protected home, she is extremely vulnerable and does not know how to play this rough dating game. And unfortunately she will eventually be the one that will get treated like trash by the guys! Whoever can figure out the logic will most likely win a Nobel Price, but I certainly know numerous women that have been enjoying this special treat and are alone and without children (something that was their greatest wish), while both the materialistic and those “boring plain Janes” are enjoying male attention.

i*maginate said...

sevensummits, I like it when you talk sex and love!

As for cheating, some people, as you rightly say, be it man or woman, are just cheaters by habit.

I guess everyone has their own view of how a relationship should be, so I don't see the point in me adding anything here :P

Except that good sex is of course important - though I imagine even if it is good, there could be a whole host of reasons why either party may go astray...maybe temptation? Or just a spur of the moment thing. I am really not sure but good sex does not seem to be the only reason why either party wouldn't cheat. I wouldn't want to know either, but when married, I would take all preventative steps including chaining my husband to the bed if necessary.

(ummm that was a joke btw lol)

What I can't wait to get married for is the regular fruitcake hahahah

sevensummits, Germans are quite passionate, aren't they lol

Ich liebe Dich, mein Schatz! :P

al-republican said...

7S:

I like how you surmise the ideal woman's lifestyle!

About my friend, let me just tell you that I do not blame his wife. She is an innocent girl who comes from a very conservative background. She probably hasn't the foggiest about modern day idea of fun.

The weird part is that this friend of mine has been in a relationship with this girlfriend of his for a good 5 years before his marriage. He simply married his present wife because he WANTED a docile, numb woman whom he could exploit I guess. So that he can take this girl around in his family and show how he is in control and who is acceptable to his family and relatives.

I personally think women are more faithful than men. Yes, there is some kind of nature about us men and we tend to get a bit flirtatious. Even a seemingly "fundamentalist" such as myself! What is exacerbating this problem, I believe, is too much inter-gender intermingling. So there are friendships at the workplace and the moment a guy or girl has an argument with their spouse back home, they go to these trusted friends (who are ALWAYS of the opposite sex!). That's where complications arise.

Also, in this day and age, people show up to work in good clothes, scents, make up, grooming and their bestest manners. So everytime they go back home, they go back home to a wife who smells of what's for dinner today. She isn't necessarily as made up as what a guy finds at home. My shaykh used to say how women these days ONLY dress up and wear scents when they go out and show themselves to others! Add to this our media these days that projects flat stomached girls with all the perfect proportions appealing and appearing like what every man dreams of. Since these women are "professionals" they know how to "shake it" and do all those crazy turn on dances, which I am sure most women don't know. So the net effect is that men are looking for all this.

We men need to stop watching these crazy women who are no better than our wives back home (in fact much worse! Why do you think their partners keep leaving them?). Women on the other hand need to understand what society is like now and need to, as imaginate said, look pleasing to their husbands.

I also agree with Rosh that a lot of times women over-react at random flirtations, which leads to unnecessary fights amongst couples. My mother always says that it doesnt matter to him how many women try to hit on my father or if he is ever tempted. At the end of the day, he comes back to my mother and my mother is knows as his Mrs.!

But, again, this shouldn't be a license for men to flirt :P

al-republican said...

Errata on the last paragraph; it should read:

My mother always says that it doesnt matter to her...

SevenSummits said...

Ah, so i* preventive steps, eh? :P
Ha, ha - chaining your husband to the bed maybe a damn good idea :-)))) …
but use that soft Sheila instead of chains and I am quiet sure he will stay voluntarily :P

… which gets me straight back to the conservative, innocent wife of Al’s friend!
Lame excuse – unless she is illiterate, there is no real justification that I will buy. It is basically like committing a criminal offence and saying “sorry officer, I didn’t know” – NOPE!
First of all she could have said no to getting hitched with this dude in the first place! Ok, she missed that one, so step two and btw religious obligation: “make him happy!” So there is “friends”, sufficient literature “how to be the perfect lover” (for him or her), informative Internet, porno DVDs (for visual clarification), or if nothing else works “Sex in the City” (recommended for both him and her)

So instead of “smelling like dinner” maybe she should welcome him at the door in beautiful lingerie maybe with a garter belt / stockings and I doubt that this guy will still think of food. There are always two people that have to make this work, so both have to make an effort! And again BTW “man” will always BE IN CONTROL, if he does his part correctly – anywhere in the world!

Strange but it seems to be a common problem wherever I work, except in Latin America. You wouldn’t believe how many times I was told in Africa “my wife is so boring, she just lies there like a piece of wood”????? (You already know that I sometimes work with the military where people are usually very straightforward!) Damn – how about communication? It seems to me that most “men” on this earth would love to find a solution to the problem (in other words be her superhero in bed), but just do not know how to get the message across. Instead they will swallow blue pills and well according to all those SPAM mails I am getting “solve the problem”.

Yeah, we all want to believe that women are more faithful than men – don’t know why! Unfortunately not true and that is also everywhere – I have three friends in the Emirates who got cheated by their wives and I was surprised about that, just like you I thought it was almost impossible there.

I was also surprised about you saying that women only dress up and wear scents when they go out???? So it must be a myth that we believe that all these women in this particular part of the world do is making themselves pretty for their husbands all day – now I am disappointed!

Ha, you believe that every man is dreaming of a skinny girl? Oh no, not in Africa – there they want curves, or in Brazil / Argentina they want a big butt, or in Germany most men want big breasts – so don’t blame the media! And when it comes to dancing – every woman knows how to dance – God gave her hips – didn’t he???? So she can shake it, if she wants to – trust me, everything else is laziness! Reminds me that I observed little girls in Brazil practicing how to walk like the “Girl from Ipanema” – so cuuuute – little princesses, honestly. Just didn’t work, because they were children of course. Ah you know that that is name of a song dedicated to a woman’s way of walking?
If you look at the most basic tribes scattered all over the world, you will always find extremely erotic ways of traditional dancing with these people – now they do not have TV, media or anything that we know of in our modern times.
It is a natural thing, just like running – we just forgot how to do it!

I believe that it is urgently time that people start communicating and start realizing that we live in our modern times. All these unnecessary taboos are really complicating matters and in the end you can see the divorce rate in the GCC countries is rising. I remember reading in “Girls from Ryiadh” (which I actually bought for my mum, but she was talking so much about it that I had to read it myself) “If we are too conservative, they (Saudi men in this case) leave us and enjoy themselves with a girlfriend and when we are passionate they believe we are cheap and divorce us.” Ehmmm, if these are the options wow!!! I would advice any woman to get rid of the jerk and get herself a vibrator! So here we have culture as an obstacle (not religion!!!) and that is a real problem! :-(

al-republican said...

7S:

Don't get me started... things are quite messed up with some men and I really dont blame the women.

Firstly, women here do dress up nicely for their husbands. I was actually refering to desi women who don't do hijaab. These women tend to dress up for others and not their own husbands, Wallah.

And about you not buying that girls don't know about modern fun, believe me, man, I know guys who don't want to "corrupt" their wives. I have heard all kinds of LAME excuses, which these even-more-lame guys throw around. One of them, for example, says something like "No backdoor with wife because it is a haram act (which it really is), so it's ok to do it outside marriage." Rather than cleansing their minds of this act they find a loophole! Such is the sickness of the human brain.

I have one idiot tell me "...how can I allow my wife to do so when she uses the same mouth to read the Qur'an!" The shameless, hypocritical blab can go on and I apologize to everyone for bringing all this up. But, really, 7S, you need to meet some of these idiots to believe it all!

As is evident from that book you gifted to your mother, what I am saying above really isn't an exaggeration. You can see how some guys want to have some kinds of sexual desires fulfilled, but wouldn't share them with their wives and would rather have girl friends to share such desires. Their justification is that because such acts are "unislamic" then they should be done outside of marriage. And the icing on this cake of ignorance is that they want to do these acts with non-Muslim girls as somehow it makes it all legal! And, no, they will NEVER marry them because their communities/circle/family will not accept blondes from Europe or a hindu girl. And all those pretty looking blondes think that these guys love them when there is no truth in it at all.

Boy! We have really digressed from the ACTUAL topic! :P

rosh said...

7S: agree with most of what you say. Human mind/nature is simple, complex, convoluted and diverse. Don't why some men or women find monogamy painful, whilst others a pleasure - and these souls exist in every culture, religion and nation, perhaps varying in volume.

Last weekend, I was at a friend's first year wedding anniversary. She an American born/bred, Indian Punjabi, married to a Caucasian Joe American. They dated for about 3 years and tied the knot last year. For the past 5 months, they've been seeing a marriage counsellor. One reason being, both feel marriage is quite *restrictive*. Both still love to club and flirt with strangers. She thinks, he has changed much after marriage - she suspects he's cheating. He knows she has cheated. And these are two educated, independent, well to do and *spectacularly beautiful* people.

Anyhow, sorry to burden your minds with that bleak scenario. But it does get me thinking - what does it take some folks to commit and stay committed. If you take those vows in front of God - the same God you parents and your grandparents did so, wouldn't you want to be honest and honour them -not just for yourself, but out of respect for tradition and ancestry?

I agree with Al - most UAE women aren't anything like that 7S (you should hear it from Inspire, she'd have stories of her friends and from the voluntary work in the UAE).

Al - don't apologize, we all know most men's thoughts on the backdoor and the likes.

I agree 7S, am not sure what some women want from men. A few aspects which I cannot accept in a woman (and this is based experiences amongst friends as well as personal) is the drama, a bossy attitude (a complete turnoff) and lack of anything concrete for a commitment. Above all something which keeps me away from the dating scene in NYC, is the casual sex scene. People jump into bed with absolute strangers - women are willing to sleep with you, before giving a chance to know you and vice versa. If only I had a dime every time I heard - "hit it and quit it, get the hell out so he or she doesn't get the wrong impression, even if he/she asks you to stay- LEAVE!"

Here are top 5 topics often discussed in the city dating scene:
- top player cities
- sleeping at his/Her place
- how to date his/her friends
- how to date a bimbo
- how to score with a neighbour,
masseuse and hot extended family.

Personally, it's gets me sick, just listening to some male friends, talk of their score over the weekend - but then it makes me numb, when I hear the ladies do the same :)

7S: after 6 years of Sex In the City, I don't think Carrie, her friends and Mr Big, understood it all either :)

SevenSummits said...

Rosh, you just publicly admitted that you watched SATC – ahhhhh, no German male would ever confess to this, even after enjoying one week of Osama’s hospitality.
LOL – you are terrific! Don’t worry, everyone else did :-)
So I can see you are the Carrie (she is so cute isn’t she?) - plus a bit of Steffi of course - type and Al is definitely a “Charlotte” fan. Didn’t I love the political correctness and the obvious US “would like to be conservative attitude”, that they all ended up in monogamous relationships in the end??? These days I observe the actions at Crane, Poole & Schmidt (Boston Legal) and Alan Shaw’s hilarious approach to women – just ROFL. (a unisex must see!)

I also admire your critical assessment Al of how religion is often abused to justify the most disgraceful behavior. It is absurd, isn’t it? This conduct will often contribute to the misconception that most Westerners have of the Islamic world. We have trouble understanding why people still claim to be religious after all this obvious hedonistic behavior. Of course, nobody is perfect, but to do something so willfully wrong does simply not correlate with “being religious”. And there is absolutely no need to apologize about “a practice” that according to numerous studies has been identified as the no 1 sexual fantasy for males on a global scale. Yet, even I am aware that Islam (or the interpretation of) will object to this practice and undeniably for obvious reasons. Hygienic concerns, health risks and the simple fact that most women do not share this idea should bring everyone to common sense. But again – we all eat fast food, even though we know it is bad for us. At least one should make an effort to be reasonable!

Those fellows would suffer from PTSD for the rest of their lives after meeting me - that is for sure. If I just hate one thing it is when men abuse the feelings of women. (any woman, even a prostitute!)

Why would anyone be so low and willfully abuse something as beautiful as “love”. We already have enough trouble in this world and their behavior is exactly what makes our “spectacular beauty” to be the way she is: “Cold and opportunistic” Why don’t these jerks simply pay for a prostitute instead of abusing the feelings of these girls? I still remember a flight, when I had this spectacular beautiful Iranian girl next to me – she cried the entire flight, because this Emirati dude first promised her the world and thereafter dumped her like a piece of trash. I could hear in her words how much she still loved this guy and was still finding excuses for his behavior. She was this typical shy, modest girl that I was talking about before, fully covered in a very conservative hijab and she obviously only made one mistake “believing this idiot” simply as a result of being too innocent to understand that the world is bad. Now she was on her way to Teheran to explain this terrible mistake to her family and I really hope that everything went well for her – but I had a bad feeling about it. The question remains - why??? No respect for certain values or human life in general? People judge too easily and so many times I have seen how girls got abused in developing countries, because their “unaware” approach to life never taught them how to say no to a harassing and pressuring male. Dubai is full of women that are just asking for an exchange deal. Gifts for sex and no questions asked – why do these idiots have to hit on little, innocent girls?
But even these Hindu girls or (fake?!) blondes from Europe may just be really in love with them, so why is there a need to abuse such feelings?

The opposite is what Rosh is describing and I fully agree with you in this respect - it is just a real turn off. I used to be irritated with this third date fixation, because I felt that was really rushing things and as you said – you really know nothing about the other person even after two successful dates. In this respect very funny article: The Biology of Promiscuity

Strangely this is a topic that is just something everyone is trying to figure out! I have never been to a scientific event where eventually in the evening people were not engaged in a discussion about love, sex and relationships. It is quite amusing when a bunch of professors from all over the world are trying to find a scientific consensus about this very irrational topic. However these discussions are usually very open and show an accumulation of scientific evidence that various people have been reading about. Actually these are the results to the question “What do women want from men?” after a three hours discussion at my last event in a mixed group (male and female and from various cultural and religious backgrounds) – at least the part we all agreed upon :-) and I hope that you an anti feminist blocking mechanism for this blog?
[Of course this was based on the assumption of a modern environment, where women are no longer financially dependent on men!]
We conclude that no matter how modern and emancipated women are, they will always remain victims of their instincts and will prefer a partner that will be able to protect them and take care of them! Very intense sex can actually help to redefine roles (the only option we have nowadays) and give a relationship that special concrete foundation that will fix little day to day difficulties. Women need lots of attention, patience and trust! (turns a furious tigress instantly into a purring pussy cat)

A good relationship will in our opinion be based on “friendship”, “communication skills”, “humor” and “trust” and we all agreed that too much daily routine will kill any relationship. In our modern, extremely stressful world (obviously a more Western approach) - long distance love is often more exiting, because when you have a chance to see your partner you will make the maximum out of valuable time. Nobody has the energy after working 10+ hours, plus maybe additional two hours traffic to still pay sufficient attention to the needs of a partner, so that is considered a serious problem.

Yet the drama will unfortunately be there: Women – no matter how intelligent and rational in life – tend to get really agitated, when it comes to relationships. As you already mentioned, they can overreact to basically anything and enormous patience is needed. Just remember that people in the West talk a lot more about sex than they actually are engaged in, so I wouldn’t worry too much about those “NY hot topics” and just assume that they are engaged in “wishful thinking”. 

To be honest, I don’t give your “lovely couple” a lot of chance, because it seems that they are still too immature for such a relationship and how on earth will they fix it after all this? It would be worse, if they will have children, so better to be reasonable now. But respect for tradition and ancestry? Shouldn’t it be respect for yourself and your partner, instead?

Got confused with “most UAE women aren't anything like that” meaning that the myth is correct and they do dress up for their husbands or not. Al said yes, what do you say? And why are these guys constantly complaining then???

i*maginate said...

I need a Kit Kat - Buj, please courier over the two bar variety.

rosh said...

hahhaha lol 7S: yeah, I am a Sex and the City fan, and SJP is just super. You are so correct, she's a la Steffi eh? meaning, she's not that typical beautiful woman with the perfect height, perfect hair and features etc - but something about her, the persona & package, just has a guy falling all over :)

BTW, this past Friday, they were shooting a wedding scene, for the upcoming Sex and the City movie - at Bryant Park on 42nd Street. I saw Mr Big and Carrie, Charlotte, Samantha and Miranda - it was sooo cool :)

Thanks for all that insight, it's quite invaluable. You are quite knowledgeable on this issue. I
concur with most of what you say.

al-republican said...

7S:

Really helpful and deep insight on the issue of relationships! What do you do for a living?

Sex and the City - I don't have the foggiest about this show. It is only NOW that I know that Mr. Big and Carrie are characters on that show. I would often hear people bring these characters up and I would just stare right through them thinking "what are these guys going on about??"

Bridget Jones said...

I recall reading this 'ad' from someone's blog that had a link to the UAE Community. Back then, I thought that it was just an ironic ad (fake) to make a point about money-minded conceited women..? No?

I don't think it is just NY girls who are so materialistic. Dubai is full of them.. The difference maybe is that in Dubai they are not thinking of marriage, just money, and in return give out their favours... So much so that guys in Dubai have come to expect that every girl would behave likewise :((

rosh said...

Seems like everybody's talking about it Bridget :)

i*maginate said...

Sex, love, rock'n'roll?

*Buj, waynak?! Inthetharak el kit kat al haina...yalla, bsurah!

rosh said...

"*Buj, waynak?! Inthetharak el kit kat al haina...yalla, bsurah!"

Translation:

"BuJ, sup? Where is my Kit Kat, come on dude hurry it up, will ya!"

*grins ear to ear, blinding display of white teeth*

Did I get it correct huh? huh? huh? :)

Anonymous said...

I like this post and the comments that sevensummits have added are wonderful and very insightful. I am a firm believer that a successful relationship has a stronger inner bond than outer bond. Physical connection only goes so far but it's the inside that grows and is much more meaningful and more lasting!

By the way, why does this i*maginate lady show off so much and try so hard to get attention from all you guys? Is she seriously *that* desperate? tee hee! No offense!

rosh said...

Anon: glad you liked the post,and I fully agree with your views. It's what's inside that counts, be it an apple, an orange, a man or a woman :)

Get to know i*.. - you'll like her :)

i*maginate said...

*rosh, correct translation hehe :)

Anon, I am more than desperate! Please email me so I can get to know your "inside that grows."

thx rosh...:)

SevenSummits said...

Hey Anon, careful :- )- she is our beautiful Princess – maybe currently with a little “drama” (see above)! Thanks for the compliment!
________

i*maginate –
now that was too easy – even I could have figured it out, so you got to come up with something a little more difficult to challege our brains :- )
__________

Bridget,
No need to despair – there are always exceptions to the general norm :- ) (but in general you are absolutely correct, especially about Dubai!)

___________

Ok, my work is asking for solution-based approaches, which again requires a great amount of positive thinking these days in the first place. So let me try to conclude with a positive “romance story”, even thou it may certainly not be the norm. Romance and Germans – bad combination - mhhhh, but I will give it a try :-)

It may sound like a Hollywood production or a fairly tale, but fortunately this was a true event and I was lucky enough to be an eye witness. This happened about two decades ago during summer break and should sufficiently demonstrate that not all men have lost the ability to judge. (or put women in general categories, without taking a closer look) )

So once upon at time a super spoiled Khaleeji boy happen to be on vacation in Europe and instead of having a great time he painfully discovered that not every female has a price. Maybe “she” was the only thing that he didn’t get in his life and when I say spoiled, I really mean that he simply had everything – including the most smashing chicks - at his disposal.
Nobody really knows how he managed to ignore all those available choices and to only have eyes for “her”, but something magically attracted him to this cute, shy girl, that always stayed in the background. She was definitely not the spectacular beauty, with zero visible curves that could have attracted the average dude and she was more like a mousy girl in Jeans, T-shirts and sneakers, but she had a beautiful, mysterious smile.

He tried everything a womanizing Khaleeji guy can think of to only get her attention. Nothing, no chance on earth – she simply ignored him, just like she ignored all those other males that tried to come on to her. Besides she was well protected by all her friends! Prince Charming was so frustrated and made an effort to show up with his entourage to all her favorite places just to sit there and smile at her for hours. She started to be utterly embarrassed with all this unnecessary attention and she started covering her face with long curly blonde hair, so that he would stop observing her. Now that turned him on even more! Everybody else (his cousins, brothers and her friends) thought it was a really amusing situation! Besides all this nonsense, he was a likable, handsome fellow with a charming smile and even more important “extremely smart”. He saw in “his princess” those inner values that he was really looking for and that was just irresistible for him. Eventually he figured out a smart trick to get her into his “territory”, by inviting her male friends to a function. Of course she didn’t know that this was in his home and her male friends didn’t either. Like a winner and so blissful, he stood there in the entrance saying “now you are a guest in my house and you will have to speak with me!” She was really scared, but followed him for a moonlight walk in the garden and the private beach. It must have been a monologue, but whatever he said to her caused her to develop some feelings for him as well.

The story did not have a happy ending, because this was obviously way before mobiles and email. They were both too young for something serious and while he was in university in the States, she was doing a voluntary internship in a development organization in a remote country. Nevertheless he was a total gentleman, never tried to harm her in any way or made any sexual advances towards her. They did not have a lot of time together and his summer vacation came to an unexpectedly early end. Before he left to the airport he took her aside and made her swear to God that she would never change. Yet he made a terrible mistake by instantly being too possessive trying to impose a lot of restrictions on her and hence sufficiently scared her away. This certainly proves that if guys are intelligent enough they will respect inner values and morals, instead of the artificial material beauty.

He is now about 25 kilos heavier :-) and one of the wealthiest man in the world. His ability to judge (plus a good startup) has enabled him to build a business that we can now all enjoy when we switch on our TVs. Most stupid thing he ever did was to move it from London to Dubai, but if these two should ever meet again – I want to be there! (which is really unlikely to happen)
So real love will go across cultures, religion and respect those special character traits!

rosh said...

OMG 7S: That was beautiful, and you told it so well. Sah, it's true - true love knows no boundaries, borders, religion and all else man made. I've always believed a heart sees another heart, then the person. If only all hearts were not so over-shadowed by the mind so often.

BTW, now am starting to believe you have a strong sensitive side, like SJP in Sex and the City lol : ) OK am kidding :)

But that was quite beautiful - goes to prove scientists (and Germans) can be romantic too eh :)

rosh said...

....and for the record, a girl like that, is whom most men really want to make a home with - yes, me included :)

Why are they so hard to find?

Bridget Jones said...

Beautiful story 7S, thanks for sharing :) If only they had ended up together!

My two cents' worth - this guy was attracted by the challenge in the first place - a woman who doesn't cave in? U must be kidding! His ego did the rest and he ended up falling in love :)

The difference between this guy and the guys in Dubai is this: Dubai guys are mostly average fellas who were probably not used to so much easy fun until they came to Dubai, and they certainly cannot boast they can get anyone and everyone, unlike Prince Charming in your story. So their appetite is far from satiated! When they meet a reserved girl, they can't be bothered with making the effort - there's just too much easy meat available on the market to bother with a "difficult" girl..

That being said, I don't lose hope of meeting my Prince Charming :) In any case it will take a very special bloke to win me over, not just any Tom, Dick or.. Ali :))

Until then, I'm happy to blog about the lil and big dramas in my quest for everlasting love ;)

Bridget Jones said...

Oh, I also wanted to share this:

The wife of the recently elected French President, Nicholas Sarzoky, Cecilia, HAS FILED FOR DIVORCE. She must be one formidable woman to want to divorce a man who is possibly one of the most powerful and notorious in the world, just months after he becomes President!

Why do I have the feeling that most Dubai-based girls will have trouble relating to Cecila ha! ;)

i*maginate said...

Gott in Himmel, sevensummits, you have done a great disservice to Germany by implying romance and Germany do not combine well.

Is this perhaps the land from which the epics "Nibelungenlied" and "Tristan" come from?

And here is a difficult translation for non-German speakers: "Danke fuer das Kompliment" - now I shall have to resort to celebrating with a quick cycle trip around the Alster!

And wrt to the little tale...something to do with MBC's owner? hehe

SevenSummits said...

Rosh,
you got to look in the shadow to find them :-) But after all life is somewhat fair and he didn’t get “it” either :P

Bridget,
help – better for her that this didn’t work out. After all the romance back to serious analysis - it would have meant "life imprisonment" for her. (to put it mildly!) What's more, you may dumb Sarzoky, but with some people you would be opting for a “no way out” situation. Anyhow, the good news was that his cousin copied the method and got himself the next available sweet Danish girl with fascinating big blue eyes. The guy said “to h***” to everyone that tried to stop him and moved with her to Geneva. I couldn’t believe it and took a flight to Switzerland at the next possible chance to visit them. When I actually saw “him” (now this is another spoiled chap) standing in the kitchen cooking dinner for her, I just resigned and after seeing this obviously “everything is possible!” In fact they were probably the most “spectacular beautiful couple” I have ever seen in my entire life. He is tall, (German definition of tall – so about 1.90m) tanned with black curly hair and she is about 1.75, really fair skin, blonde with those amazing eyes. (A mix of chocolate and champagne cream comes instantly into ones mind)

i*maginate
“Absolut richtig geraten, Prinzessin :-)”

i*maginate said...

*sevensummits, keine erstaunliche Erwartung. Moin, moin ;)